Please read Chapters 5 & 6. Then write one well-informed observation with a quote as support. After you post this, wait until fellow Lit students post something, and respond to one of their observations. Be insightful and ferociously intelligent with your remarks.
Due: Wednesday, before class
Due: Wednesday, before class
"I wonder where in the devil he met Daisy. By God, I may be old-fashioned in my ideas, but women run around too much these days to suit me. they meet all kinds of crazy fish" (87).
ReplyDeleteLike we have discussed in class, in Gatsby, there are two types of rich people. They are the old rich (those who have inherited their wealth) and the new rich (those who earned their own money and have become wealthy). I think chapter six is the first time we see people from both backgrounds meet and observe each other fully. Tom Buchanan looks down on Gatsby although he is very rich. I found it very interesting that although Gatsby is obviously very wealthy and powerful, Tom chooses to accept Nick Caraway, who is not very rich, while he thinks badly about Gatsby. I thought wealth itself gave a person high social status and their lineage did not matter. However, I guess background and a long family history of wealth is superior compared to an one generation success in this time period. It's also kind of weird too because it goes against the independent spirit that Americans seem to stress throughout history.
I agree how we see different riches, and how it affect their personality. And I also think how wealth is a status that people can brag about, and make them look superior even thought they aren't. It is interesting to see different riches, because I used to imagine as riches being arrogant and important-looking.
DeleteI also feel as if Tom is somewhat jealous of Gatsby. From what Zen wrote, I think there is a tension between the old rich and the new rich, which is quite absurd because in the end they are all rich. I think this time period really focused on how they became wealthy, and in this book we really start to see the idea and the importance of the American Dream, in comparison to people who inherited their wealth.
DeleteI agree both to Zen and Mami. I feel like the old rich, because they had money since the beginning, look down on those who have once been poor. This also proves in a way, how money isn't actually how people define others. Because they have had enough money, people became quite used to it making the money seem less important, hence, it is not a crucial factor in choosing who to socialize with. However, I am pretty sure when they are deprived of their privileges, they just would go crazy because they have no idea how to handle a life without money.
Delete"One thing's sure and nothing's surer. The rich get richer and the poor-get children. In the meantime, In between time-" (81).
ReplyDeleteI think this is referring to the level of the society. The rich have money, so they basically have everything they want, while the poor don't. And for the poor, they might have the perspective of having a child might fulfill their grant and happiness. But when the time comes, and they have a child, they realize that having a children take up a lot of money, which make them become much poor.
By looking at the scene, I sort of see Ewing as being controlled by Gatsby, and how he can't go against him. So I think this song include his emotions itself, and how he is conveying the perspective he sees in the society.
I like Shiori's interpretation that the parents entrust their children to pursue the dreams they couldn't achieve.
DeleteAlso, I find this song to be a bit ironic because it starts out optimistic and carefree: "In the morning, In the evening, Ain't we got fun-", but becomes realistic and gloomy, by referring to the society like Shiori mentioned. Maybe this contrast is symbolic of Daisy and Gatsby's relationship...hmm.
“‘My God, I believe the man’s coming,” said Tom. ‘Doesn’t he know she doesn’t want him?...I may be old fashioned in my ideas, but women fun around too much these days to suit me. They meet all kinds of crazy fish”(Fitzgerald 87).
ReplyDeleteThis section of the book represents the distinct social difference between the two riches. It depicts how shallow and mean the East, old money can be. No matter how much Gatsby achieves the American dream, the old money crowd will never accept him. Aristocracy can not be attained just by wealth.
That is why Gatsby was unable to recognize that Sloane’s lady didn’t truly want him for dinner, and ended up being left behind.
Isabel:
DeleteI totally agree. I love how you incorperated the American Dream ideal into this. This year, we have read a lot of books where the American dream was the end-all, be-all goal; the "old money" characters seem to have a different opinion.
Isabel:
ReplyDelete"As his lips' touch she blossomed for him like a flower and the incarnation was complete" (92).
This quote is illustrating the fact that it's not exactly Daisy that Gatsby wants; he likes the thrill of the chase. Daisy doesn't know this, and neither does Gatsby; only Nick seems to realize that as soon as Gatsby got what he wanted essentially, the dream of having Daisy had somewhat disappeared.
I agree. After kissing Daisy, Gatsby became more determined for her, whether it's Daisy herself or her wealth and social status. At the same time, his love and desire for Daisy made him not drift off looking for other girls like the past- "His mind would never romp again from the mind of God." (92)
DeleteCatherine:
Delete" I agree with Isabel, that the love Gatsby think he feel is just a dream, a past he can't let go, that he never considered that Daisy may not be the girl he fell in love with anymore. On the other hand, I feel that Daisy too does not truly love Gatsby, but simply searching for a escape from the life she hated so much. Looking at Gatsby, as the memories are brought back, Gatsby seemed like the place to go.
"Can‘t repeat the past?‘ he cried incredulously. Why of course you can!‘ He looked around him wildly, as if the past
ReplyDeletewere lurking here in the shadow of his house, just out of reach of his hand. I‘m going to fix everything just the way it was
before,‘ he said, nodding determinedly. She‘ll see' (110, 111).
This quote is extremely powerful because it reveals Gatsby's true nature. Unsatisfied with the life he has made for himself, similarly to most of the wealthier people during thing time, he is desperate to relive the his past which is "just out of reach of his hand". The idea of Daisy drives him to desperation for an unattainable life.
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DeleteI also think that this quote accurately describes Gatsby. The wealthy people of this time period (and probably of right now as well) seem to be dissatisfied with their lives. Tom is a married man who seems to have anything and everything he'll ever need, but he is caught up in an affair. Similar to him, Gatsby also seems to be very well off, but he'll always be chasing after things that could prove to be unattainable to him, such as another man's wife.
Delete"The truth was that Jay Gatsby, of West Egg, Long Island, sprang from his Platonic conception of himself. He was a son of God—a phrase which, if it means anything, means just that—and he must be about His Father’s business, the service of a vast, vulgar, and meretricious beauty. So he invented just the sort of Jay Gatsby that a seventeen year old boy would be likely to invent, and to this conception he was faithful to the end" (82-83)
ReplyDeleteThis is the first time that Nick gives us a formal lay-down of who the Great Gatsby is. I thought that it was interesting how Nick compares Gatsby to the son of God, or Jesus, to illustrate how he had found his own identity among those that live in the West Egg. Although he doesn't seem to be so different as a wealthy man from the outside (hosting elaborate parties and whatnot), it's clear that he hasn't entirely fit in with the old-money aristocrats of the East Egg, separating himself from the people of this area. Tom and the Sloanes seem to not enjoy soliciting with Gatsby, rejecting his invitation to stay for dinner, and Tom is already rather critical about Daisy coming to Gatsby's house to visit. It'll be interesting to see how Gatsby's presence will start to either overwhelm others, or shrink out of existence.
This particular section also stood out to me and I agree with what you said. I think what makes him the "Great" Gatsby is that unlike other old rich, he worked for his wealth and achievement and became the vision that the seventeen-year-old-him painted for himself. This is quite impressive.
Delete"'In the morning,
ReplyDeleteIn the Evening,
Ain't we go fun-'" (80).
"'One thing's sure and nothing's surer
The rich get richer and the poor get - children'" (81).
These two stanzas were lines from a song called "Ain't We Got Fun" I was keen what the song sounded like. Ain't We Got Fun to me, basically described a living situation for a poor family, yet having a great time with their loved ones, no matter how poor they are. I think they're in the opposite situation of Mr. Gatsby, and everyone living on the Long Island.
The Love Nest was another song mentioned in this part of text. This song is literally about having a house, whether you are rich or poor, and living a cozy life with you loved ones. The lyrics also mention whether you are building a house to display your social status, or to actual have a family, which is interesting because it relates to Gatsby, while he is trying to be cozy with Daisy. It felt like Fitzgerald incorporated these two songs as a juxtaposition to Gatsby's lifestyle. Gatsby has everything in the world, yet he is alone, while the poor families mentioned in the song have no money, yet they have each other. It feels as if Fitzgerald put these songs on purpose to display Gatsby's wealth and solitude.
"An instinct toward his future glory had led him, some months before, to the small Lutheran college of St Olaf in southern Minnesota. He stayed there two weeks, dismayed at its ferocious indifference to the drums of his destiny, to destiny itself, and despising the janitor's work with which he was to pay his way through. Then he drifted back to Lake Superior, and he was still searching for something to do on the day that Dan Ody's yacht dropped anchor in the shallows alongshore." (p83)
ReplyDeleteAfter I read this passage, I realized that education is one of the main aspect during the 1920's on how it distinguished between the upper classes and the lower classes. It was a wrong decision for him to drop out of college just to get away from the the humiliation as a janitor because college education would've provided him great nobility and stability (even now). It's not a surprise for Tom, whose from the upper class, to recognize that Gatsby is not an Oxford graduate because of the way he talks. It's sad to see how he still struggles to be accepted from the upper class, and I believe this haven't changed even now; we see students going into college because their degrees will take them to their future.
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ReplyDelete" Gatsby saw that the blocks of the sidewalks really formed a ladder and mounted to a secret place above the trees-he could climb to it , if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder" (92)
ReplyDeleteThis quote clearly shows how wealth and social status means to Gatsby. He saw the sidewalk as a ladder, and he wanted to climb this ladder to reach wealth and status.The " secret place above the trees"may be indicating people like Tom and Daisy. He had to climb this ladder alone, that he had to leave his love for Daisy, only then will he reach " the pap of life" , and the " milk of wonder", meaning the American Dream, wealth, and social status. The quote could also mean that Gatsby had to climb the ladder, a metaphor of Daisy, that she had to be his alone, and with her wealth and name, he will be able to fulfill his dream of being in the top of the social hierarchy . All this illusion disappeared the moment he kissed Daisy, that moment he "incarnated" in her, his life revolved around her, and he had been living in his past ever seen, when he was the happiest, ignoring the fact, that the past could not be repeated, and that people change.
I agree; I find this metaphor of "climbing the tree" is something that applies to Gatsby. He definitely envies people like Tom and Daisy who are also of a higher class, but a different higher class. I also agree that Gatsby's life has been revolving around Daisy ever since that night on the sidewalk; I remember someone said that he bought his house in the West Egg just so he could see Daisy's across the bay.
Delete" I keep it always full of interesting people, night and day. People who do interesting things. Celebrated people" (77).
ReplyDeleteThis particular quote is said by Gatsby, about this house and Daisy also mentions later on, about this category of "interesting" people. As discussed in class, for this rich society, gossip and rumors never ceased. Because they had wealth, they had a lot more time to spare or more likely to kill. They had to somehow entertain themselves and part of it was gossip. It seems, at least to me, quite absurd and almost comical that the major thing they find interest in is people because they are practically ridiculing others without really realizing that simultaneously, they are mocked too. But I think this is really common to every period of time, even now. We find pleasure in other's misery/drama when we cannot find anything better to do.
This is also, I think, a means of escape. Many parties means many people. Many people means a lot of distraction. A lot of distraction means less time to think. Less time to think means less time to go crazy. I doubt these people really wanted to live like they did, partying all the time like that. The only reason they did, I believe, was so they could distract themselves from the rapidly approaching depression.
Delete"He talked a lot about the past, and I gathered that he wanted to recover something, some idea of himself perhaps" (Fitzgerald 92).
ReplyDeleteDuring the Jazz Age depicted in this novel, everybody who had money were thought as careless and carefree. They had no morals, and partied every day without any doubts concerning their life style. This quote shows another side of these rich party people. They wanted to go back, to when people cared. Money ruined them and they realized that, and they wanted life to be like it used to be, when carelessness wasn't the norm.
Christine
ReplyDelete“He talked a lot about the past, and I gathered that he wanted to recover something, some idea of himself perhaps, that had gone into loving Daisy. His life had been confused and disordered since then, but if he could once return to a certain starting place and go over it all slowly, he could find out what that thing was” (92)
This particular observation of Gatsby is made by Nick. It is interesting because what Gatsby claims he wants is for Daisy to break off her discontent marriage with Tom and marry him so that they can go back to how things were before. Yet, even after he notices that Daisy was unhappy at his party he does not realize that it is because they do not lead the same lifestyle and the people around them are quite different (Daisy does not enjoy the company of those careless, rich people at the party) Gatsby only thinks that Daisy does not fully understand him. The Daisy that he fell in love with was a sweet girl, young and innocent, and his life was also uncomplicated. However ever since he acquired wealth and became the center of the high-class society, he became caught up in the fast-paced, rich lifestyle and seems to have lost a part of himself that he’s eager to get back. Perhaps his love for Daisy is a desperate attempt to find himself and a past that he longs for. (Ironically the way that he tries to win over Daisy was by impressing her with his extravagant house and lifestyle, bringing her to his parties, etc)
I personally like the pairing of Gatsby and Daisy so it’s exciting to see how things will progress.
"He wanted nothing less of Daisy than that she should go to Tom and say 'I never loved you'"(91)
ReplyDeleteThe story goes on after this quote with a conversation between Nick and Gatsby about repeating the past. Gatsby wants things to be just like they were between him and Daisy. Before Tom. This is why Gatsby needs her to say she never loved Tom. This quote seems to present a new theme to the novel, at least, one that wasn't apparent before. A theme of time and the past. We see this various times already, although subtly. Such as in Tom and his "peaking" in high school. Gatsby also seems to live in the past and all that he does is an effort to rekindle the love him and Daisy shared 5 years ago.
I agree, Gatsby is very optimistic about this idea from your quote as well as shown on the next page "'can't repeat the past?' he cried incredulously. 'why of course you can!'"(92) He has a lot of hope that Daisy will choose to come back to him.
Delete"For over a year he had been beating his way along the south shore of Lake Superior as a clam-digger and a salmon-fisher or in any other capacity that brought him food and bed. His brown, hardening body lived naturally through the half-fierce, half-lazy work of the bracing days." (83)
ReplyDeleteThis quote goes to show that Gatsby was, or imagines himself to be, someone of a lower class. I find this hard to believe, what with all the wealth he has now in the West Egg. This quote also gives the impression that Gatsby was only working to support himself on a day to day basis, rather than saving up a fortune. Since this is Nick's narrative, this must of been what Gatsby told him, and I'm not entirely sure if all that Gatsby told him is true. The only evidence that Gatsby has to show is the picture of him with a wealthy man named Dan Cody, who was anchored in Lake Superior at the time.
ReplyDelete"Possibly it had occurred to him that the colossal significance of that light had now vanished forever. Compared to the great distance that had separated him from Daisy it had seemed very near to her, almost touching her. It had seemed as close as a star to the moon. Now it was once again a green light on a dock. His count of enchanted objects had diminished by one."(79)
The green light has been a symbol to Gatsby and one of the enchanted items in his mind. Telling her about its significance to him eliminates the mystique that it once had as something he could look to as a secret symbol of her, something closer than he. It is possible that being with Daisy on that day, he may have not have needed the symbol anymore, as he at that point was closer than the light was to her.